Comments on: John Tory's transparent side

By: Erin Smith

Erin Smith — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 05:05:59 +0000

I believe that the historical decision to fund Catholic schools in this country was fundamentally a flawed, albeit political, one and that it would be unfair to redress it by making the same mistake only many times over. The expansion of faith based funding could potentially create additional prejudices for students who are not lucky enough to live in a large urban centre where populations can sustain an entire school based on a single faith. I worry that by allowing faith based funding of schools we will only serve to chip away at an already faltering public school system by spreading few resources across an even wider area. In the wake of Mr. Tory’s comments on a revised school system that *could* teach creationism – I shudder to think of the disservice we might be doing to our children. Mr. Tory’s idiotic comments serve as evidence that we cannot trust that the province or the board of education will be able to tell the difference between religious dogma and historical and scientific certainty.

By: gila martow

gila martow — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 12:29:01 +0000

Why not ask your MPP about the EA’s in the Catholic schools – that’s what he/she is there for! It is interesting to note that the Multi-faith coalition for equal funding of faith-based schools threatened to launch a lawsuit for funding for special needs kids in faith-based schools 2 weeks ago. The money was promised (in writing) in 2000, but only 30% trickles through. In fact, a lot of special needs kids are forced to attend public schools for just this reason when we would support their right to stay in face-based schools, where parents pay significantly extra tuition to support low-income families AND extra programing. I have been told on numerous occassions that the government pays significantly more for special needs kids in the public and Catholic system – resulting in kids being labeled with problems somewhat prematurely (so the parents say).

By: deejaybubbajoe

deejaybubbajoe — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 18:43:52 +0000

so….newfoundland got it right? way to go, byes!
if you dont like the public system, home school your offspring, or pay for it.
it is interesting about the’half truth’ bit, but you didn’t answer my question about the EA situation, did you. gee…no more ski schools? isn’t that ‘tory blue’ country? breaks my heart…NOT!

By: gila martow

gila martow — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 01:40:26 +0000

Isn’t it interesting how half truths get tossed around? Newfoundland and Quebec did indeed abolish guaranteed funding for Catholic schools in Newfoundland and Protestant schools in Quebec BUT Quebec went ahead and funded ALL non-public schools (at about 60% of the public rate). So non-public faith-based, arts-based, sports-based schools in Quebec get significant funding – just not guaranteed in the Constitution! What’s interesting in Quebec is that school funding is divided along linguistic lines where French schools get slightly more funding than English ones; so a Jewish Sephardic (French speaking from Morrocco) school would get slightly more funding than an English Catholic one! Alberta has a cute system of “hybrid” schools which I would like to see in Ontario: non-public schools get significant funding for each of the following: following the general curriculum, open enrolement, teacher certification, programs with the public schools, etc.
Talmud Torah, a Jewish Day School, is partnered with the public school board, has open enrolement and gets 80% funding while an ultra-orthodox Jewish school gets about 60% funding and is partnered with the Catholic Board. Instead of saying “They are getting 60% of public funding” you should say “the government is saving 40% for each of these kids who does not attend public school!”.
Oneschoolsystem.org: does that mean no more arts schools? gifted programs? ski schools in Collingwood? Students must apply and be accepted to attend those schools, how does one school system accept them?!?

By: deejaybubbajoe

deejaybubbajoe — Thu, 14 Jun 2007 22:16:56 +0000

hmmmm…i wonder who gila is voting for? for the record, i am a Christian, but i believe in one public school system, and i am angered by these attempts to segregate kids into groups based on their religious beliefs. how can they possibly learn to respect other cultures when they are carefully removed from any accidental exposure to them?
plus, throw in the fact that the catholic system’s funding surplus is used to provide full day kindergarten…now, i wouldn’t want people to think i am cynical and believe that parents would choose the catholic system based on the daycare costs they would save by sending junior to school all day a year earlier, but…
and what happens to the kids that have learning disabilities in the catholic system…are they being helped, or sent over to the public system?(i am sincerely unsure of the answer to this, but i have been told that this is why so many E.A’s are required in the public schools)
gila, i sure hope the conservative party follows your lead and opens up this can of worms; i would enjoy seeing the whole story being told, having heard so many peices of the puzzle told in tiny slivers…
oh, and, some quick research…newfoundland and quebec have abolished public funding for religion based schooling (1997 and 1998 respectively) so maybe gila’s right, and it’s time to stop treating other faith based schools like second class citizens…place ALL the faith based schools in the same boat, and let their parents pay for it themselves. seems fair to me!

By: gila martow

gila martow — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 02:30:47 +0000

The following was not published (not for lack of trying!) I figured you guys might as well read – feel free to correct/improve/comment! Send to your friends!

Team McGuinty â Feeling the Heat
By Gila Gladstone-Martow

With baseball season under way, the boys in blue â The Jays and John Toryâs PCâs â
are appealing for fans.

April in Southern Ontario was hot, hot, hot, but that was not the only reason the Provincial Liberals were sweating â Team McGuinty suffered three set-backs early in this election season.

First inning had Citizenship and Immigration Minister Mike Colle facing down a hard-hitting media in Ontarioâs new âslush fundâ affair. $32 million in capital grants were handed out in the last two years without a formal application process to over 100 agencies â several of which have been identified as Liberal supporters. After intense pressure from John Tory on the pitcherâs mound, Coach Dalton capitulated. An auditor was called forth to review the âplaysâ?.

Next at bat was Environment Minister Laurel Broten who struck out with her campaign to save the environment by telling us all to âFlick Offâ?. It was a marketing approach better suited to a real sporting event, and cost taxpayers $500,000. Her team colour may be red but Broten showed us all how green she really is on environmental issues â household lights are a miniscule contributor to green house gases.

Two strikes and Team McGuinty was feeling the pressure on the morning of April 26 at Queens âPark.â? Batter Peter Fonseca, MPP for Mississauga East, swaggered up to the plate with his proposed resolution on school funding. Smirking, he read from his notes: âThe Legislative Assembly of Ontario affirms that its commitment to students in the public education system is so strong that it opposes any attempt to take public money and hand it over to private schools.â?

Sitting quietly in the stands, the Multi-Faith Coalition for equal funding of faith-based schools smelled something foul and prepared a press release explaining: âThis resolution is extremely unfair and misleading since it fails to recognize that, unlike Catholic schools, the small minority of non-Catholic, faith-based schools have no choice but to operate as âprivateâ schools. Excluding all funding for âprivateâ schools means that non-Catholic, faith-based schools will continue to be treated as second-class citizens.â?

Seasoned players Frank Klees, MPP for Oak Ridges, and Tim Hudak, MPP for Erie-Lincoln, were set to debate the issue for Team Tory. âIt is unconscionable that the member would come into this place with a resolution that leaves confusion in the minds of the public on this important issueâ?, stated Mr. Klees.

Team McGuintyâs game plan was to sacrifice their batter with a bunt in hopes of sneaking in their resolution. The defence read the play and McGuintyâs Liberals decided to bail out. A bewildered Fonseca looked around sheepishly after his motion failed to pass â apparently his team-mates were hungry and decided to visit the legislative snack bar in lieu of lending their support. Not just his uniform was red as an embarrassed Fonseca watched his resolution pop up for an easy out by the blue defence.

Strike Three! The Conservatives sure werenât singing the blues as they celebrated their victory!

By: gila martow

gila martow — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 01:46:04 +0000

Several points to consider:
* Alberta funds (up to 80%) non-Catholic faith-based schools under the umbrella of either the public or Catholic school boards with little additional administrative costs or difficulties – the schools have to follow guidelines or lose funding.
* Quebec funds every non-public school (religious, sports based, etc) at about 60% the public rate. They hand over the dough per pupil and it is up to those schools to manage the costs. There are two boards, French and English. The more hours of French instuction, the more money the non-public schools get!
* Many religious families will never send their kids to a public school as evidenced by the 53,000 students non-funded at faith-based schools in this province. Wouldn’t it be better to integrate them into the public system, like Alberta, so that they can be monitored?
* Why is it everyone is comfortable when all the talented skiiers go to a boarding ski public school in Collingwood, gifted kids are in special programs, talented kids apply and are accepted at “segregated” arts schools, French language families send their kids to the French board, 675,000 students attend Catholic school BUT tempers flare at the prospect of funding, with restrictions, other faith-based schools?

By: Dave Dale

Dave Dale — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:12:27 +0000

My initial concern with John Tory’s election promise is indeed the additional administrative cost to the taxpayers, further draining the resource pool and inflating the cost of educating students.
Each new group will want its own experts to run their schools their way with their own people.
If I thought there was a way to have one administrative level managing a hive of faith-based systems, I’d spend all my energy researching a way for that to work.
I have no faith that people of different faiths could agree on who gets to divide up the marbles.
At the core of my broader opinion, however, is that religious fracturing of our education system actually weakens the nation.
Separating children by faith in the school setting, where children spend the majority of their lives, is neither financially efficient or socially expedient — not in the longterm.
Perhaps Catholics, Jews, Muslims, etc. should find a way to nurture their children’s religious foundations outside the school system, where the focus should be on learning academic and practical skill sets, as well as worldwide religious studies.
I realize my opinion runs counter to the historic and culturally-orchestrated systems we have.
And I’m not unaware of the reason Catholics have what they have and it’s obvious they wouldn’t give up this advantage without a fight.
I accept the fact all culturally distinct communities will never relinquish their grip on educating their children, which they believe will assure certain mores, morals and doctrine are given deep roots.
I just don’t think it works very well. Most children just want to mix with the “other” children and don’t understand why everybody has to be different.
Separating church and state is a good idea, separating church and education is worth considering.

By: deejaybubbajoe

deejaybubbajoe — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 03:41:20 +0000

oh yeah…whatever you do..dont take money away from the catholic board. there’s nothing at all wrong with funding ONE religious school system. by the way, did they ever settle that in newfoundland?

By: gila martow

gila martow — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:46:11 +0000

We all agree that funding 675,000 Catholics students who are attending publicly funded Catholic schools, with high satisfaction levels I might add, while denying funding to the other faith-based schools is unfair. Since the PCâs have not outlined âhow toâ? specifics for funding all faith-based schools, I think those who have concerns should stop criticizing and fear-mongering and instead offer suggestions as to how the non-funded schools can be brought into the public system in a manner that strengthens our education system.

Dale Daveâs primary concern seems to be additional school boards with their additional administrative costs. Dave, why not present your requirement that there be no additional school boards, merely partnerships with existing ones? This was done in Alberta in the 1990âs when many formerly independent schools were partnered with existing school boards.